From Borders to Opportunities: Demystifying the Interstate Massage Compact

Get Even More Career Protection with Massage Liability Insurance

This webinar teaches you basics on how to protect yourself as a massage therapist, but what about protecting your career from lawsuits? Massage liability insurance from Massage Magazine Insurance Plus provides professionals with all-inclusive coverage so you can focus on your career with total peace of mind.

From Borders to Opportunities: Demystifying the Interstate Massage Compact Webinar Transcription

Hi, everyone. I'm Matt from Massage Magazine Insurance Plus. We're so excited to have Patty
from FSM TV with us today to present on the topic of demystifying the Interstate Massage
Compact. Our plan is to have a Q&A portion at the end of this presentation, so please drop
your questions in the chat. I'd like to introduce you to Patty Glenn. Patty Glenn has over 30 years
of experience in leadership roles. She served as Executive Director of the Oregon Board of
Massage Therapists and Founding President of the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards. Her work
has shaped industry standards and improved collaboration among professionals. As the Director of Education
and Professional Mobility for the FSM TV, Patty continues to advance education and opportunities
for Massage Therapists nationwide. With over 26 years as a Massage Therapist herself,
Patty brings firsthand experience to her work, making her a trusted leader within the therapeutic
community and beyond. And with that, Patty, please take it away. Oh my gosh, thank you so much, Matt.
I really appreciate the opportunity to be here with you today and with the friends and family of
MMIP. So we're going to talk today about the Interstate Massage Compact. There's a lot of
misinformation and questions and chatter, I guess, about the Compact. And so we want to take this
time to share with you a little bit about what the Massage Compact is, where it came from, and
how you can get involved with the Compact, and then obviously answer any questions that you might
have as we get to the end. So I'm going to try and go through the logistics of the Compact
fairly quickly to leave as much time and opportunity available for questions at the end.
Let me share my screen with you here really quickly.
Perfect. So the Interstate Massage Compact, I'm going to just look forward here. There we go.
Was a joint effort between a number of different organizations. So I want to just talk briefly
about who those organizations are. So there is a National Center for Interstate Compact.
It's part of the Council of State Governments. And that entity for well over a century has been
working with states to create Compact to address many different issues or things that come up
in relation to how states relate to each other. So their role is to create legally binding
agreements between states to promote cooperative actions among those states and to provide a widely
recognized and durable solution. So there's currently over 250 active compacts in the US
on a variety of different things as you'll see. They're used to address boundary issues,
to share natural resources. I was looking through the list myself and saw one regarding the Columbia
River between Washington and Oregon and how the water is used from that supply source. So
this is a longstanding history of addressing a lot of different legally
networks or agreements between organizations and entities.
The Department of Defense is involved, as many of you may have already heard.
Their role is to help fund this project. And why is that important to them?
When we have a current national unemployment rate of about 4%, the military has consistently
remained in the mid 20s. And a part of that is because of the impact that mobility of our
military forces has or our servicemen and women have on their families who are licensed in a
variety of different professions. And we'll talk about the structure of that in just a minute.
I just want to share with you some of the compacts that have already been finalized with their support,
massage therapy, cosmetology, dentistry, and dental hygiene, social work, and teaching.
There's three other compacts currently under development and those are respiratory therapy
school psychologists and dieticians. The third party that participated in this is the
Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards. Many of you have probably heard of FSMTB because FSMTB
also owns and operates the MLEX through our member state boards. The mission of the
Federation is to support our member boards in their work to ensure that the practice of massage
therapy is provided to the public safely and competently. So these three organizations came together
after the Department of Defense sought a mechanism to address the issues they were having with
unemployment and their military and dealing with military portability. Excuse me. In 2020,
the Department of Defense entered into an agreement with the Council of State Governments.
And in 2021, massage therapy was actually selected as a first round profession to partner with FSMTB,
CSG, and the Department of Defense. At that point, a technical assistance group was formed,
which met for over a year to help determine what the needs of the profession would be
to look at the variable landscapes of massage therapy, regulation, and to help
ensure that the end product would be able to fit the needs of both the regulatory community
and public safety, as well as the needs of our therapists to gain as much mobility and portability
as possible. The technical assistance group was made up of three key groups of individuals.
One of those groups was representatives from the professional licensing boards. And you'll see
some names here you might recognize. The next group was massage professionals and educators.
And again, I'm sure you'll see a few names here that you recognize. And some of you may be on
the call today. And the final section of our tag group were national organization representatives
who deal with these issues on a regular basis.
The drafting team following the technical assistance groups work, the drafting team then
took their work and compiled that into the draft model language for the interstate massage compact.
There was a public comment period that was taken. In 2022, the council state governments managed a review process.
And that review process included virtual presentations, in-person meetings, a website where you could provide public feedback.
And then all of that information was compiled together, reviewed by both the technical assistance group
reviewed by both the technical assistance group and the draft and then, excuse me,
and then drafted with those changes. And the final draft was created.
So there's a lot of information out there on the interstate massage compact that people do not
necessarily know is available to them readily. And that is on massagecompact.org.
So you can go directly to the interstate massage compact page, massagecompact.org.
And on that page, you'll find a number of different resources.
You can go there either through the URL at the bottom of the screen or simply by clicking the QR code.
So let's talk more importantly about or importantly, I guess, now about what the compact is designed to achieve.
Oftentimes, I hear people say, well, I'm not in the military and so it doesn't apply to me. Or
how does that type of a compact help me if I'm not going to move to another state or I don't
intend on working in other states? So let me share with you a few things that we have seen or heard
over the last couple of years. First of all, the massage compact will increase the pathway of access
for massage therapy in this country. It'll also enhance our member state's ability to protect the
public and will help us to cut down on human trafficking and licensure fraud.
It does as we indicated earlier help our military families, but it also helps you.
I just recently had a family friend who was a licensed massage therapist that needed to move
to another state temporarily to support her daughter while she was on bed rest.
But unfortunately, she's also required to have her income as a massage therapist.
And as a result, she was unable to go support her daughter because she could not afford to
be unemployed during that time and had to rely on other family and friends in her absence.
Having a multi-state compact and a having a multi-state license would have allowed her to
seamlessly go into another compact state and work during the time she needed to help provide care
for her family. We've also heard from therapists who desire to be mobile in their profession.
Either their spouses now work from home or have a remote type position or they simply want to
be able to travel as they move into the later years of their life but still maintain a massage
practice. An interstate massage compact is an ideal tool for that as well.
In addition to that, it helps to create a lot of not going to read the list. You can read the list
and go to the website. Nothing in the compact and this is nothing we've heard a little bit of
chatter about. Nothing in the compact is intended to ever overstep state board autonomy.
So the interstate massage compact creates an umbrella license and we'll talk a little bit more
about what that means. But that additional license allows you to maintain your home state license
and then travel through any of the states that are members of the compact much like you can
do with a driver's license today. In a driver's license situation, you can drive anywhere in the
country. If you get a ticket in that state, you're going to be required to deal with the ticket in
that state but subsequent discipline still happens at your home state driver's license. If there's
any need to revoke a license based on that behavior or issue a suspended license, that type of thing.
The same thing would be true with a multi-state massage license.
So what is it take to be a member of the compact? That's another question we hear all the time. My
state's not eligible because it doesn't have enough hours or I don't think they can become a part of
the compact because they don't currently require continued competency. So currently or not currently
in the requirements for a state to be a member of the interstate massage compact or that they
must license and regulate the practice of massage therapy. They have to utilize a national licensing
exam. They must investigate and discipline on complaints, be able to conduct background checks,
have some form of continued competence that is not specified whether it's one hour or 24 hours or 12
hours. You just have to have a mechanism for continuing education. They have to participate in
a national database. That's what helps us to know that we have a cohesive movement of therapists
around this country and that everyone is operating safely and under proper regulation.
They have to report disciplinary actions into that database should they take action
against a licensed therapist participating in the compact. They must comply with the commission
rules that will be established and we'll talk about that in just a moment. And most importantly,
they have to be willing to accept licensees that have a multi-state compact license.
And what about you? What about the massage therapist? You need to have an active license in your home
state. The home state is defined as a state in which you reside. So you must have a state license
in the home state in which you reside. You must also have 625 hours of education. Again, we'll talk
about that in just a moment. You must pass a national licensing exam. You must pass a background check
and you'll have to pay the applicable fee. When we talk about the main questions that we hear come
up, they revolve around things like the examination. I didn't take the mblex. I took the national
certification boards exam back in the day or I graduated with only 500 hours of education, not 625.
Those decisions will be the work of the initial compact commission once the first seven states
adopt the compact. So here's the process. First, states must adopt the compact.
You'll see here on the left of the screen, there's a small map. Nevada is the first state that
officially adopted the compact back in June of 2023. There are several other states that currently
have legislation and in fact, just a half hour or so ago, Alabama passed the interstate massage
compact out of their house committee. So we're excited about the possibility in Alabama right now.
Those first seven states will form the interstate compact or the impact commission.
This commission's job will be to put together the rules that help to define what substantial
equivalence is when it comes to the national licensing exam requirement, as well as the 625
hours of education. We cannot speak to what that commission will do, but it stands to reason that
the commission would be due diligent in ensuring that they create opportunities for as many massage
therapists as they deem safe and effective to be able to enter the interstate massage compact.
So that 625 hours could in fact, based on how the statute is written, be a combination of
both basic education or core curriculum coming from your massage school, as well as continuing
education, potentially work experience. Those are hypothetical from my standpoint,
because again, that will be determined by the commission made up of the members of those
first seven states that adopt the compact. Once those draft rules are established by the commission,
they will then go out to the public for a significant public comment period where input will be taken
similar to how it was for the interstate compact or how it might be in your states when you
adopt new rules as they relate to massage therapy.
That information will then come back to the commission, changes will ensure being made or
adjustments made, and the rules will be finalized. Once those rules are finalized and systems and
procedures are established on how to manage the compact as a whole, and what I mean by that is that
in some compacts, the license is issued by the state. In other compacts, it might be issued by the
compact commission. So those will be the things that that commission will work on to identify initially.
Once those procedures are established, then we get that exciting first multi-state license is issued.
I don't know how that numbering system is going to go, but I think it'd be super exciting to be
able to be the first one to have a multi-state license.
So what can we do as regulators, as school educators, and massage therapists? First and foremost,
we can make sure we have the facts when we talk about what an interstate massage compact is.
Second, we can recognize that we've been working for decades on professional mobility and standards
in our profession. There's tons of guidance out there for this at this point in time that could
be utilized. And it's time that we have these systems in place for the benefit both of public
safety and public access to massage therapy, but also for your access as massage therapists to be
able to meet your needs, whether it's family or work. Also for schools to be able to work
more seamlessly with their education standards and being able to educate students that could work
in multiple states and are not necessarily restricted by those boundaries.
I've got more I could talk about, but I think it's going to come up in our Q&A. So I'm going to
move forward with that. We're only 15 minutes into this presentation because I'd like to open it
up to Q&A and be able to talk live about the questions, concerns, feedback, and things you've
heard. So super short on the presentation this morning, we're going to be long-winded on the Q&A.
The QR code on the right hand bottom of your screen is actually a Google form that you can fill
out and submit to let us know if you're interested in participating or being more, excuse me,
being more involved in the impact process as we move forward. And then we'll move there, Matt,
if that's okay with you. Again, upper left QR code is your website for the massagecompact.org
that you can access to find out a ton of information about the interstate massage compact. And then
the bottom right, get involved. Let us know who you are. Let us know your opinion. Let us know how
you affiliate and what we can do to support you. This is not a project being pushed by
anyone organization or anyone individual. This is our product as a profession to increase public
safety and increase portability of licensure and reciprocity. Matt, I'm going to turn it over to Q&A.
So we have a few questions that came in during the presentation. And the first question I would
just like to answer it. Renee asked, are we going to be able to have access to this video? Yes, you
will be. It will be posted on the Massage Magazine YouTube channel tomorrow. And you will also get
a follow up email with the video onto the other questions. So Maria asked, my school has permanently
closed. How do I get my hours? You know, that's going to be one of those challenging questions that
the commission is going to have to take a look at. Unfortunately, one of the other issues with
the variety of regulation and accreditation, how schools have been run or managed over the years
has led to schools opening and schools closing. Some states maintain and store transcript records
on behalf of all of the educational institutions in their countries and others do not or in their
states, excuse me. So the commission will have to look at how does it utilize or recognize transcript
information? So I don't know if that individual has a copy of their transcript. I know one of the
challenges people run into is not being able to get an official transcript because the school is closed,
but maybe they have a copy of an official transcript. It's just been unsealed. So again,
these are issues that I already have this vast list of things to hand over to the Compact Commission
for consideration that includes scenarios just like that. The other benefit that we didn't talk about
that I knew would come up through Q&A is that requirement to participate in that national database,
this is a project that the federation has been working on with its member boards for the last
18 years to create a database for the profession that will allow the storage of key documents
pertaining to licensure. That includes also through CE Registry for CE certificates when
we're required to upload or submit them. So my recommendation to all of you who are
therapists in our profession is don't do what I've done, just to be honest. In my own history,
I've kept continuing education certificates through my next renewal period or maybe for
five or 10 years. And then at some point when I was moving or changing location,
I ended up purging a bunch of stuff that wasn't relevant because it didn't get hung on a wall or
something like that. And I realized that I've lost a tremendous amount of the history and knowledge
that I've gained over the years as far as just documentation. That was my approach. Others of
you are meticulous. I've seen people with binders or complete CVs that have every single
education course you've already taken. But this is not an overnight process. The compact won't be
adopted tomorrow. So I would really encourage you if your schools won't be adopted, excuse me,
won't be stood up tomorrow. We're looking at a couple of years and then even more years down the
line as states come on board. But I would encourage you now to get a hold of your current
transcripts if you can from your school and have those stored in a safe place. Save your continuing
education documentation because you never know when you might need it. And ask us any other
questions that you can. So hopefully that answers Maria's question. Not sure on her specific scenario,
but feel free to reach out, complete that Google form for me and we'll chat a little bit more
later about it. Hopefully I got that name right too, Matt. I just realized I might not.
Human error. Other questions. I know you've got them. There we go.
My fire alarm is going off. So I'm just going to send you.
That is the technical day we've had today for sure.
It's been entertaining. I don't know. Are you trying to send them to me?
Okay, hold on. My apologies.
Let's see if I can get to that point really quick.
Perfect. I've got you, Matt.
Okay. Are states that do not require CE, not eligible? That's a great question.
They are eligible to adopt the compact. They can certainly move it through their
legislature and get that statute enacted. But in order to actually participate in the interstate
massage compact, they do have to have some form of continued competency. But again, as we indicated,
that does not require 12 hours or 24 hours. It could be an annual jurisprudence exam or,
as we're seeing roll out in some states requirements on ethics or cultural competency
in healthcare that could be a requirement that would satisfy that need. There just simply
has to be some form of continued competency. And I do know that a couple of the states that
don't have CE requirements are looking at what that would look like to enact that.
And another question that came up is, do the state boards need to participate in
massage in Matilda? So yes, the state boards do need to participate in Matilda. And Matilda is
the nickname for the massage therapy licensing database. Again, this is a regulatory database
created by the state regulatory bodies to bring together licensing data and simplify and ease the
burden of regulation, not just on the states, but on you as therapists or on schools for the
school approval process. There's many ways down the road in which the massage therapy licensing
database will be able to or can or could really benefit our profession. But yes, in order to be
a compact state, we need to obviously know who has a multi-state license. That will be held through
the massage therapy licensing database. Let me know, Matt, whenever you want to take over
moderating again, if the fire alarm goes off. My fire alarm turned off.
Okay, good. Well, I'll let you take over from here. It feels more Q&A that way.
Michelle asked, how does one make up the shortfall education hours for licensure in the seven states?
Okay, so wouldn't be licensure in the seven states? Thanks, Michelle, for that question.
It would be licensure in any of the states in the compact. It just requires seven states
in massage. There has to be seven states to create that commission, and that commission is what will
then decide the rules that help to flush out those details. So in this case, if your core
education is below that 625 hours, this is where the commission will look at the variety of different
landscapes we have from state to state and be able to consider the as many opportunities as
possible for your education. And so that's where I think it's important that we do track any
continuing education that you've taken, because that has definitely been part of the discussion of
the tag group was to be able to utilize continuing education in order to make up that gap between
the 500 and 625. Some of you might be asking, where did 625 come from? That's been a number that
has kind of held steady for the last over a decade when the entry-level analysis project,
or ELAP, was conducted. And that was done by the seven major organizations, national organizations,
to help identify and understand what entry-level education was for massage therapy.
And that number fluctuated a lot, but 625 was the number that they landed on as a minimum hours for
public safety to be licensed in the profession. And as you know, many of our states are still sitting
with laws on the book that indicate a minimum of 500 hours. But what we know in our profession
is that the average amount of hours in schools today is 723. So we have this really crazy landscape
with massage, where one state is 500 hours, one state's 1,000 hours. But all the schools for the
most part are teaching in that above that 625 range, if that makes sense today. But that said,
we know that there's many of you, like myself, who've been in this profession for a very long time
and may not have come in with that number of core education hours. And so again, the Compact
Commission will be taking a look at those different scenarios and trying to identify what the best
pathway to gaining entrance into the Compact would be. If we didn't have so many of you on here,
we could do this as an interactive Q&A. And it'd be so much more fun.
One of the other questions we have is from Gypsy. She said, well, I have to get insurance
in each state I want to work in. And just speaking from Massage Magazine Insurance Plus,
if you are insured through us, the coverage follows you nationwide. And you will not need to buy a
new membership if you are working in multiple states, follows you. Yeah. And we talked about that a
little bit too. I'm pretty sure that's the same other major insurers in the Massage profession.
Where you're going to want to double check is if you've chosen to go with like a local small
insurance company, and there are trying to think of the names of who has them, but there are
niche companies that do insure massage therapists professionally that are not the major insurance
players in our profession today. And so that would be important for you to check and just see what
that coverage looks like for your business. But as Matt was just saying with Massage Magazine
Insurance Plus, that rings true with the other major organizations in the country that they cover
you in all of your 50 states. One of the people asked, why does the compact set an education benchmark
of clock hours instead of competencies or standards of practice? That's a good question.
Wow, how do we answer that? The challenge is coming up with something that's measurable,
right? Back in the day when I was first regulating massage therapy, we still had a practical exam,
which it was hard pressed for me to let go of once I understood the value of being able to
see that therapist in work with their client. And at the same time, practical examination isn't
necessarily as easy to measure and as consistent. So what we have in Massage right now is education.
And what we know about the standards of education is the schools across this country right now
from a competency or knowledge based anywhere from that 6 to 650 range are performing exceptionally
well on the M blocks. So that tells us that individuals who have that range of education
are in fact knowledgeable, competent and safe to work on the public. It is important to remember
that the role of regulation is to ensure public safety. It is not to ensure excellent in massage.
We hope that your excellent massage therapist and that you have those amazing skills and competence,
but the role of the regulatory community really is to ensure public safety and that's where that
625 clock hours comes from. I want to dive off on a separate topic for this topic for just a second
expand a little bit, Matt, because as I'm thinking about this, one of the questions we've gotten
is why is our statute so vague for massage or why does it leave so much to the commission to
determine by rule as opposed to some of the other compacts out there like physical therapy or nursing.
And the reason we've talked about several times but not really specified it is the cause and that
is the varied landscape we currently have. We are so inconsistent at this time from state to state
in how we regulate the number of hours, whether or not we have continued education,
what those hours of continuing education looks like, what the scopes of practice are. We are
very inconsistent so putting to building a compact for our profession was no short order on behalf
of that tag group that worked on this. It's not as cut and dry as it can be and then if you're
not really familiar with the legislative process, one of the things that's important to understand
about statute versus rule is that statutes are meant to be evergreen and what that means is they're
meant to live for as long as possible and when you have an ever-changing landscape like we currently
do in massage, it's important that we only lock in to statute things we know will last or that we
can live with for a long time because it depends on the political climate, other issues. I mean,
we've sat through serious sessions where we couldn't get the state couldn't get something
through that was really important for the regulation of massage because that particular house or
Senate hadn't passed the budget yet and so nobody was moving anything other than budget issues
where really our hands are really tied when it comes to making changes through statute. So
the due diligence of that tag group and the drafting committee to ensure that what they came up with
was as solid and substantial as possible but allowed for the commission to address the
changing landscape that we currently have in massage. So I want to make sure that that's really clear
and that people understand that anybody who's ever sat in a capital will probably scratch their
head and if you have never sat through hearings on different bills you should absolutely do that
either virtually or in person to see just how much politics play in instead of necessarily logic at
time. So it's not a job I wouldn't want to have but hopefully that helps to kind of clarify a little
bit about A the 625, why it's not more specified, also the exam, why it's not more specified. It does
if you look at the definition people have asked about that as well. It does specify the exam that
looks like the MBLX but not by name but you'll notice that both with education and with the
examination it says or substantially equivalent and that is very intentional to allow the commission
to do their due diligence to ensure again the best product for both the states and for you as licensees.
All right now back to you.
Ori asked what are some of the reasons that many massage therapy state boards are not in support
of the compact? You know it's interesting. I don't know if there's many that are not. There are
individuals who have questions and concerns and there are state boards that are required to remain
silent so that's one of the other challenges that we have. We have a system that is built on state
autonomy and that state autonomy means that we don't have the same regulation methods or means
we don't our boards are not housed in the same organizations even from state to state and so
some states are fully supportive but the board is not allowed by the legislature not allowed to
take a position. They are required to remain neutral. Other states the board is not only
allowed to have a position but they're actually allowed to put forward legislation so the issues
that we've had in passing some legislation has actually not been related to any state
opposition that I have seen at this point in time.
Terry asked if a therapist has grandfathered in with lower hours will they be able to license
through the compact? So that's another great commission question. It is something the tag group
discussed but it is something the commission will also look at and so let me give you a scenario
that I have written out for the commission to look at. I was licensed 28 years ago in the state of
Washington. I came into my licensure with sufficient hours so I qualify to if the Washington joined
the compact I personally would also be able well that's a different story I'll tell you about that
in a second but I would personally be able to through my home Washington license be able to
enter into the compact. I have a colleague who graduated just two years prior to me but because she
because she was two years earlier her hours were significantly less than mine but also she took
the state licensing exam. I didn't realize I was right on the cusp of when the national
certification boards exam was accepted in Washington state and I do anticipate as all the discussion
has led that direction that the commission will accept individuals who've completed the
NCBTMB exam prior to the Amblex as their licensing exam would be considered substantially equivalent.
So her scenario in mind we've both been active practicing therapist for almost 30 years or
she has been for 30 years. We look the same on all surfaces and our state has those requirements
and the state considers us to be a substantially equivalent to that requirement. So the commission
will need to look at that and make a determination on whether individuals who've maintained current
licensure in their state and if the state in fact meets all those requirements whether or not they
would deem that licensee to also be substantially equivalent. But again that's not a commitment I
can make to you or that or a definitive that I could say is going to happen. That is something that
as we get to the point where the Compact Commission has stood up and they're vetting these issues
that's why public comment is going to be so important to help shape the landscape of what this compact
really looks like. Hopefully that answered that question. Cheryl asked is there a time frame for
states to join the impact? No, no. So my personal goal and I would love for all of you on the call
to jump on with us or on the webinar would be to get these seven states in the 2025 legislative
session this coming you know next winter I guess so to speak. We have Nevada right now hopefully
before the end of this session we'll have Alabama joining that conversation. We've had some unfortunate
losses I think primarily due to a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation and confusion that's been
brought forward which is why we're here today. We want to make sure that you understand
exactly well the facts as we have them and the variability as we have them I guess but that you're
getting facts and you're not hearing through the Facebook hive or through somebody else that said
they heard that the compact did this or did that or I heard somebody say it doesn't matter to me it
only affects military families that's such a small percentage of who benefits from this but that
percentage has so much influence I mean impact or importance that the Department of Defense was
willing to issue grant money to fund these projects so we are grateful for our military and our military
families but at the end of the day they will not be the predominant user of the compact you know it
will be you as therapists okay sorry soapbox. Someone asked how can I check if my state plans to
participate? I would say hit that QR code that says get involved or that said get involved can we
can I bring that back up and still see my chat matter am I going to have trouble doing that?
I think you could bring it up. Well I don't need to see the chat because I have you now
I have a firearm anymore so let me
wait did I get that back?
Okay that's the end screen sharing can you see it on your end? It's still the presentation.
Oh okay sorry no that's what I was talking about just want to make sure it was up because I can't
see what everybody else sees sorry about that so that bottom QR code that says get involved
if you scan that QR code and fill out that Google form
you'll identify what your role is if you're an educator or maybe your educator and a
licensee and a regulator like I have been in my lifetime you may hold many roles you can select
all of those roles that you're in that you serve in what states you're involved in or licensed in
or reside in and I think there's an opportunity for some questions as well
let us know how you'd like to get involved or if you just want to be informed of the process
and we will keep you in the loop on what's happening in your state we need you out there
we had one state this year that it should have just been an easy pass in that house committee
it had very good support from the committee members unfortunately no one was there to testify in
support of it because everybody thought it would just be a slim dunk and that there wasn't a need
and we had one entity show up that opposed it and in the absence of support that bill was
tabled till next legislative session it makes sense they have their job to do and when they've
got a dissenting vote in the room and no supporting votes in the room it would have been hard for them
to vote to move it forward so it's important to have those beat on the ground to show up at the
legislature at the legislature for hearings to write in to send in written testimony there's
actually some language on the compact website itself that you can send into your own senators
and representatives to let them know in some states like I said it's being brought forward by
individuals in other states being brought forward by the lieutenant governor's office
because it's part of a big compact package that addresses other professions as well so each state
is different in how this the compact language is moving forward and how to get it introduced or
involved and then the timelines for that obviously are impacted by that as well
we're pretty quiet now for this legislative session nothing new is going to happen so right now
we're in a phase where it's important that we educate between now and next legislative
session so that we can get this through without all the hiccups that we've had
D asked will NCBTM license work for the national license exam well that whether and the original
NCBTMB licensing exam although it is not specified in statute it is absolutely our expectation that
that exam would be considered to be substantially equivalent but like I said earlier that'll be
something the commission will have to establish by rule so until that commission stood up I can't
speak on their behalf but that would be our recommendation gypsy asked how many states are
working on the compact now oh my gosh that's an ever moving question because the when you say
working on it that comes from so many different places it could be a state association working
on it it could be the actual board itself like I mentioned it could be the governor's office or
a legislator because the department of defense is involved we also have DLSO which is the
liaison office for the department of defense and they have regional representatives that work
with their states as well that are helping to work on this issue council of state governments
is working on this issue as well they don't advocate for the compact per se but they are resources
and support for the compact so it's varying significantly however the answer to that question
is actually shorter than I just made it you can see what's happening as far as actual bills that have
been presented or submitted by going to the massagecompactor.org website CSG manages that page the council
of state governments and they are keeping that map updated if you click on that if the state is
one of the varied colors you click on that state you'll be able to see that bill number and the bill
information. Heidi following up on that Heidi asked what is recommended for us as massage
therapists to do if our state has not started the process start the process you can reach out to
your own senator representative if they're interested or you can reach out to the senators
and representatives that are working with veteran affairs or other organizations if that might be a
more appropriate path in your state but you know it's interesting I think sometimes in our current
political climate we feel like we really don't hold much power but I'm currently watching a state
situation where one licensee is holding the entire profession at hostage essentially because
that's really all it takes the squeaky wheel or that motivated person out there can get a lot done
so if you're interested in having this done in your state we'll support you in how to
talk to the legislators or you know who you might want to talk to we can help give you some
encouragement connect you with other people in your state reach out to me and we'll do what we can
to make this happen for you the questions I get all the time from CSG when they get questions
from you though through the website they'll forward them to me and it's never why are you doing this
or what's happening it's always when is this going to happen when is when are we going to have this
compact when can I apply for a multi-state license and it's exciting and also sometimes discouraging
when we know that we're losing the fight sometimes because we just don't have enough of the people
that care about it present in the room to let people know that it's important to them so get
involved that's what I would say just get involved and message me and I'll
talk to you about how to do that. Maria asked if I pass the national test now will
account when this all goes through or do I have to pass the test after? No no no absolutely get
it done now as soon as you can get your envelopes taken and passed get it taken and passed oh my apologies
not a fire alarm no absolutely take your envelopes now if you were one of the first people to take
the envelopes or like I said with the national certification exam which we are for the national
exam for therapeutic massage and body work the licensing exam that was done by the national
certification board we do expect that the commission will recognize that exam as well so
for those two exams it would be unlikely you would need to take another exam that said if you
live in a state that offers a state exam and the envelopes I would highly encourage you to take
the envelopes the state exams that are offered are often not transferable to other states
and they're a state exam they're not a national licensing exam so they would not meet the criteria
for the statute so highly highly encourage you to take the envelopes it's been designed and
developed for you to assess that entry-level competence and we've got a lot of resources here
to help you to study and practice for that and to know what to expect.
Michael asked some state bills are multi-dual modality will the compact address slash include
this and how so? So that's a great question and I can't believe that I didn't touch on it at all
um you're required to practice according to the laws in the state you're practicing in regardless
of what state that is so if your home state allows for everything in the kitchen to be
utilized in massage therapy but you go into a state that's far more restrictive you're going to be
required to work within the scope of practice in that state so much like when we're driving from
state to state some states allow you turns with no issues other states only allow you turn if they're
signed or you know there's a lot of different driving requirements just because you cross over
the border but you were trained in Washington state or New York does not mean that you can drive like
a New Yorker through the entire country you have to follow the rules of the road when you cross
those individual state lines whether it's the speed limit you turns how to use a roundabout
merging whatever those things are so same thing is true with massage therapy when you move into
another state it's your requirement to understand and know as a licensee sorry when you work in another
state and we'll talk about the moving thing in just one moment when you work in another state
it's really really important that you're adhering to the laws in that state regardless of the modalities
allowed in your home state so I want to talk for a second about what I just said in my little slip
there which is when you move one of the other points of confusion we've had with the compact is
that this was designed only for individuals moving or that it was designed specifically for
individuals moving to another state that is in fact not the case um there remember that last
bit I said about state autonomy and that the states maintain their autonomy each state is
required and allowed to maintain autonomy over their home state license or the license they issue in
their state so the compact does not require states if you were to move so let me give you an example
if I live in Washington and I get licensed in Washington but then I move to Oregon and my multi-state
license and home state license are in Washington I will have to apply for an Oregon state license
as my new home state because that's the state which I now reside and then I would also get my
multi-state license through Oregon because they're going to be members of the compact
I'm saying that about all 50 states but as long as both states are members of the compact
now there's not a provision in statute to address this question but my expectation is that the
commission when they come together in those first seven states a because it's on my long list of
things to hand them to take a look at um they will look at this issue of recommendations to the
other regulatory boards or to each other as compact members and I can envision a climate where you would
not have to jump through all those licensing hoops over again that state via the multi-state license
has already deemed you substantially equivalent or safe to work in their state
simply by participating by your ability to participate through that compact multi-state license so
what I've heard from a few regulators and what I anticipate will be the case at least with a
number of the states is that they'll create a application pathway for holders of a multi-state
license to simply fill out paperwork pay the appropriate license fee and get their new home state license
but again those are a little bit hypothetical but through all the conversations I've been
involved in I feel confident being able to throw that out as a as a hypothetical scenario
Stacy asked what exam what exams are most likely going to be accepted in the compact
the two that we've consistently talked about are the two that I expect you will hear and see
we don't have any other national licensing exam in our profession there are a number of state
exams that have existed the challenge is going to be to determine whether the ability to determine
whether any of those might meet the statutory requirement and be significantly equivalent so
that'll be a commission decision but I would say if you haven't taken the amblex
you've taken another state exam take the amblex
someone asked if I move to a state that is not a member of the impact do I lose
I lose my compact even you technically do yeah at this point I mean that's a commission conversation
but at this point yes that's true unfortunately or not unfortunately I can say unfortunately because
I inferred earlier to be in a Washington state resident but I'm literally in the middle of moving to
Kansas unfortunately Kansas is a state that still doesn't have state licensure so if a state does not
have state licensure like California or Kansas they're not eligible for the compact at this time
so that's another important step that we need to take in some of these states is to really work
with the legislature and get state licensure in place so that these states can join and be a part
of the compact and but if you are the compact is only it's a network of those existing states so if
you move to a state that's outside the compact then you would not be eligible to be a member or
holder of that multi-state license until that state joins the compact it's a it's some growing
pains but I will share with you that as I've watched as I'm watching these other professions
evolve with their compacts they're everybody's dealing with the same issue this is not new to
just massage we have probably the most varied crazy landscape maybe next to cosmetology as far as
entry-level requirements but everybody has these seem growing same growing pains as they
bring a compact on board so that's why I said this is this is like a turtle and a hair race that
we have to be kind of the slow and steady toward us that's going to get to the finish line first
if we try and go through this too fast mistakes will be made things won't be considered
and we don't want that for this profession we want a product and I say we the collective profession
when I talk to therapists and educators and regulators they want something that's going to
stand the test of time for this profession and it takes a little bit of time to make that happen so
again sadly it's not addressing my retirement desire to just start traveling the country next
year but maybe in 10 years I'll be able to get an RV and go work you know for six months here six
months there Devana asked will the NCB, TMB and the compact work for CE hours currently there
few states like Florida, Texas and Mississippi that require their own CEs so I would say that's
a great question for the professional associations and to help move us forward and but it's also a
good question for the regulatory board so it's a challenge that we currently have right now with
this inconsistent CE landscape so the hope through through something called CE registry which is a
newer product of the Federation of State Massage Therapy Boards of the regulatory community
the intention of CE registry is to provide a platform where massage therapists have a
one-stop source and regulatory boards have a one-stop source to
verify and validate continuing education and so when we you know kind of back to that question if
I'm understanding it correctly as this evolves as we move towards this end goal of more consistency
and portable and reciprocal environment that we will end up in a place where we can address the
inconsistency of continuing education unfortunately again because of state autonomy it's not something
that an association can dictate back to the states or that the compact can dictate back to the states
NCBTMB is a private nonprofit they don't have that ability to dictate to the states either they've
just they saw a need and they're and they're meeting that need so yeah that was the best long
non-answer on the face. Someone asked what it what if I took the NCBTMB exam as was required in my
state for licensure but I didn't maintain membership in the national organization am I still eligible
absolutely again that'll be a commission question on the exam itself but maintaining a private
certification has no bearing on your ability to be licensed in any state in this country and certainly
doesn't have a bearing on the compact people that feel that that credential is important and valid
for them that's a professional decision on their part but it doesn't tie into regulation and will
not be a factor in their ability to get a compact license.
Steve asked when talking about public safety is there a way a state will be notified when
a compact therapist will be working in their state? You know that's an interesting question and
I hate to answer a question with a question but we've done this before because that is one of
the questions that we hear out there is like how do we know as Missouri if a
Washington therapist is now working in our state and the reality is we don't know as a
regulatory community right now so I know there are many of you that I've heard from that are
currently holding and paying for licenses in many states in order to travel up and down the east
coast or to snowbird from the northwest to the southwest Arizona area and follow the tourism
and follow the sunshine I guess too and so right now Arizona doesn't know when you're practicing
in Arizona, Washington doesn't know when you're practicing in Arizona if a state has a requirement
for you to notify them then that's a state requirement that exists for their licensees then
multi-state licensees would need to follow that same protocol when they come into the state
but I don't believe there's any states that have that mechanism in place at this time and I really
don't anticipate it we are you know as mobile as we can be when we as therapists but I mean even
therapists that are working in the state many states don't know where you're working as a therapist
unless you have establishment licenses so lots of variability but the answer of that is no
the state won't be notified when you happen to be working in their state or not and hopefully
they won't even know because you won't have any complaints filed against you you'll just come in
and work into your job and enjoy your life. As we're coming close to the end is there any
other questions that people would like to ask I'll give it a little bit see if anybody else wants
to put in some last-minute questions and I'll do a shout out to any of the compact team or
tag group members or anybody else that think there might be a topic that I've missed in this
conversation today or any clarification that we need to make.
That's pretty amazing Matt it's 1157.
Oh it went by really fast. It did. It did.
Somebody asked what about taxes?
So you know that's always fun. I don't like to answer that question even when I live and work
in one state let alone multiple states. So if you are it is important that you have the proper
advisors i.e. accountants or CPAs likely on this conversation but
you know some states have state income tax you know it really just depends on your working model.
One of the things that I ran into talking to a senator who was also a therapist
previously was the question about like who would want to move from state to state.
For those of us who've been practicing for a long time we grew up in an era where
we've did a lot of work to build our clientele that you know it took years sometimes for us to
really get our books so full that we you know didn't have extensive openings you know we had waitlist
form. The landscape of massage has changed with the incorporation of more and more spas
with the national franchise organizations that are bringing you know visibility of massage
therapy to neighborhoods across the country and that that has changed how our therapists work
and I know that we heard from Deidre with Canyon Ranch talk about how mobility of her
therapist is important to get across you know state lines from one of their locations to another
to fill their seasonal demands we've heard that a lot from the hotels in the spa industry.
I was able to attend a massage envy conference recently and heard from a lot of massage
envy establishments who are really struggling with the need for more massage therapists in their
area or they live on a neighboring or bordering state and they'd be able to share resources so it
really depends on whether you're in a private situation where you're working for yourself when
it comes to taxes or whether you're actually working as an employee for an organization like
there's just so many variables but that's definitely something you don't want to consider if you're
working across state lines either under a multi-state license or currently under your varied licensing.
Laura Lee asked background checks are not required on my state would we need to get one even if
we have past envelopes and have a current license. That is true you know one of the things that and
we're right at noon so I'm not going to go belabor this issue but one of the challenging things that
we've seen over the last decade is a pretty significant influx of bad actors purporting to be
massage therapy and that's an issue that is near and dear to the heart of the federation in dealing
with a variety of different human trafficking issues and near and dear to our regulatory community
as well as our profession as a whole and part of the way we help protect against bad actors and
part of the reason this helped the conflict actually helps to enforce or improve public safety is
through requiring a background check and through requiring participation in that national database.
So you can be licensed now and not have had to take a background check or not have had to do a
background check but by the time the state implements issuance of multi-state licensing there will have
to be a mechanism in place and again that's something that the compact commission will work with
to identify kind of how to best do that with each state or help the states to work through
that process but there does have to be a background check process. In the statute language which is
available on massagecompact.org you can see some pretty specific criteria for what those concerns
or issues would be as it relates to getting a multi-state license but there are some intentional
safeties built in to ensure that we're not opening an opportunity for bad actors to utilize the
interstate license to continue to engage in bad acts so the background check is important.
And as the last question that we're going to ask Lisa asked what are the seven states that are
currently trying to become a part of the compact? So there aren't seven states trying to at this
point in time so seven I mean as seven is a little confusing there actually might be more we've
had several states with legislation go through this session that we were not able to pass out so
currently we have Nevada has adopted it and Alabama has just passed it out of the house and we're
hoping it will pass out a Senate and be adopted there. Georgia had a bill go through this session it
was met with some confusion and as a result it did not pass as did a few other states. Ohio if any
of you are from Ohio I believe it's passed out of both House and Senate but I think there's a waiting
period I don't know I think maybe the legislature was I should know this but I don't at this moment
and had a break and they were waiting for them to come back but I do hope that Ohio will be our
second or third state to adopt the compact so there was legislation in New York a few other
states again if you go to massagecompact.org and click on that map you can kind of see what is out
there right this moment but my hope is that for this next legislative session we'll get at least
those for seven states necessary and hopefully a few more so that as we move into that rollout
phase of the compact that we have as many states possible that our members and are able to participate.
I'm so sorry if we haven't answered your question but we're coming to the end if you would like to ask
further questions you can contact Patty and you can go to the massagecompact website
and ask the question there and I'm sure somebody will get back to you with the
answer you're looking for. Well and really quick Matt just as segue in again do that google form that's
on that lower right QR code and also I did not put it up there but you are welcome to email me
directly and my email is P-G-L-E-N-N at F-S-M-T-B dot org that was P Glenn at F-S-M-T-B dot org.
And I think we're gonna wrap up. Yeah thank you guys all so much for your time and patience
that's fun to do this a little bit on the fly but I appreciate all of your time it's great to have
this much interest. Thank you Patty for joining us it was great presenting and I learned a lot
and I hope everybody else did too. Thanks Matt thank you all. Have a great day everyone.